gothic fashion utilizes raven, rose, and skull motifs because these symbols act as a visual bridge between fragile human existence, literary melancholy, and a longing for timeless beauty that triumphs over impermanence. These three icons – the bird heralding secrets from the afterlife, the flower linking pain with ecstasy, and the bone reminding us of our inevitable end – were not born within the modern subculture, but were adapted by it from deep reservoirs of ancient art, religion, and literature. The contemporary gothic style has transformed these age-old metaphors into a luxurious sartorial language, allowing individuals to manifest internal unrest, romantic sensitivity, and a rebellion against the superficiality of the mainstream world. By wearing these designs, we do not merely choose a dark decoration; we write ourselves into a centuries-old cultural tradition where terror and elegance form an inseparable whole.
In this seventeenth installment of our Gothic Tales series, we will embark on an incredibly detailed, multi-layered journey following the tracks of these three fundamental motifs that shaped the appearance and soul of what we know today as dark fashion. We will wander through misty medieval scriptoriums, baroque painting studios overflowing with the spirit of memento mori, nineteenth-century literary salons, all the way to the birth of post-punk at the Batcave club and the emergence of modern high fashion design. We will discover that every embroidered application on velvet, every print decorating gothic hoodies, and every lace structure from which modern gothic dresses are woven is a meticulously inscribed cultural code that demands a deep, emotional reading.
The Triumph of Shadow and the Birth of Alternative Elegance
Before we examine each of these symbols individually, we must understand what gothic symbols truly are and why they became the foundation of an aesthetic that has resisted temporary fashion and commercial trends for over four decades. An alternative approach to dress has never been just a matter of choosing the color black. It is, above all, a manifestation of a specific state of mind, deep introversion, and a fascination with what mainstream culture tries to push to the margins: transience, death, darkness, and the mystery of the night.
Modern gothic clothing acts as a visual shield, and at the same time, as an invitation to a dialogue with the unknown. When, at the end of the nineteen-seventies, bands like Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, or Joy Division began to redefine the legacy of punk rock, they sought a new language of expression. They found it in horror literature, German cinematic expressionism, and historical decadence. The visual layer of this musical revolution needed signs that were immediately recognizable yet carried a massive emotional charge. Ravens, roses, and skulls fit this need perfectly.
However, we must not make the mistake of attributing these motifs solely to the goth subculture that emerged in the 20th century. That would be an immense oversimplification of art history. dark fashion acted as a brilliant curator and collector of the past – it reached out for symbols that were already perfectly well-known to humanity, but gave them a new, urban, and tailored context. When we look at the details of the clothes hanging in the wardrobes of alternative aesthetic lovers, we are actually looking at a multi-layered historical collage. There, we find echoes of medieval beliefs, baroque fear of death, nineteenth-century romantic rebellion, and folklore tales from the furthest corners of Europe.
In this text, we will not analyze fashion in an encyclopedic or superficial manner. We will look at it as a living tissue of culture, where cut, fabric, and graphic motif combine to tell a story about human fears, passions, and the constant search for beauty in the shadows.
The Raven: A Winged Shadow Between Worlds
From Pagan Myths to Christian Condemnation
The raven is probably the most ambiguous and fascinating bird in the entire history of human iconography. Its jet-black plumage, piercing gaze, and habit of scavenging on battlefields made it a natural link between the world of the living and the realm of the dead. In Norse mythology, the ravens Huginn and Muninn – embodying Thought and Memory – were the closest companions of Odin. Every morning they set out on a long flight over the world, only to return to the shoulder of the highest god at dusk and whisper the secrets of humans and gods into his ear. In this pagan perspective, the raven was not a symbol of evil; it was the embodiment of supreme wisdom, secret knowledge, ancestral memory, and the capacity for clairvoyance. It was a guide of the soul, crossing the boundaries between worlds without fear.
The situation changed dramatically with the arrival of Christianity in the Middle Ages. The new religion, striving to eradicate pagan beliefs, demonized many animals, and the raven became one of the main victims of this transformation. Due to its scavenging nature, it began to be perceived as a sinful bird, a harbinger of misfortune, war, plague, and death itself. In medieval illuminations, the raven often accompanied scenes of damnation, appearing near gallows and execution sites, becoming a symbol of Satan hunting for lost human souls. It was then that the fear of its croaking was born, interpreted as an ominous prophecy or a mockery of human life.
A Romantic Flight on the Wings of Edgar Allan Poe
A true renaissance and aesthetic shift in the perception of the raven was brought by nineteenth-century romanticism, particularly its dark, gothic branch. Romantics, exhausted by the rationalism of the Enlightenment and the brutality of the emerging industrial revolution, turned toward emotions, night, madness, and melancholy. The raven ceased to be a primitive demon and became a symbol of tragic isolation, deep wisdom misunderstood by the crowd, and an eternal longing for what was lost.
The turning point that forever inscribed this bird into the canon of pop culture and dark aesthetics was the publication of the poem "The Raven" by Edgar Allan Poe in 1845. The bird, which in the middle of a stormy night enters the room of a grief-stricken lover through the window and answers every question about the possibility of seeing his deceased beloved Lenore again with its bone-chilling, hypnotic catchphrase, became a literary icon. It ceased to be merely an animal and became the embodiment of the irreversibility of fate, of a mourning that will never pass, and of the madness touching a human being in the face of finality. From then on, the raven in literature and art began to signify intellect intertwined with suffering, pride in the face of tragedy, and fidelity to a memory that transcends the grave.
The Raven Silhouette in the Architecture of Modern Clothing
When gothic fashion began to shape its own visual language, the raven naturally took a place of honor within it. In the architecture of clothing, this motif is utilized in many ways, from literal graphics to subtle texture references. Black, shimmering feathers became an inspiration for designers creating evening wear in the premium segment. gothic dresses gain incredible drama when their shoulders or necklines are decorated with rows of synthetic, gently shimmering feathers that mimic the rustle of a bird's wings taking flight with every movement. This is a reference to nineteenth-century mourning gowns, but in a modernized, more fierce and sensual version.
In everyday urban fashion, the raven reigns in the form of intricate prints and embroideries. gothic hoodies featuring ravens perched on the branches of dead trees or spreading their wings against a full moon are an absolute classic of the genre. These graphics are rarely simple or comic-like. Most often, they resemble old nineteenth-century engravings, anatomical drawings from ancient zoological atlases, or expressive oil paintings. Embroidered raven silhouettes on the backs of coats or bomber jackets serve as a modern coat of arms – a signature of individuals who value solitude, possess the nature of an observer, and are not afraid to look deep into their own shadow. The raven in gothic fashion is a declaration: I am proud, independent, and my knowledge of the world reaches deeper than superficial daily life allows.
The Rose: Beauty Lined with Pain
Medieval Mysticism and the Alchemy of Contradictions
The rose is the queen of flowers, which in the European cultural sphere has acquired such a massive and complex symbolism that it could fill entire libraries. In antiquity, it was the flower of Aphrodite, a symbol of sensual love, beauty, and pleasure. However, even then, its dual nature was noticed – the breathtaking flower hid sharp, wounding thorns beneath its petals. In the Middle Ages, Christianity undertook a profound reinterpretation of this symbol, dividing it between the figure of the Virgin Mary (called the Mystical Rose, free from the thorns of original sin) and the blood of martyrs. The red rose became a symbol of the ultimate sacrifice, suffering that leads to salvation, and divine love stronger than death.
On the other hand, in the alchemical and esoteric tradition, the rose was a symbol of mystery, the process of spiritual transformation, and the unification of opposites. The white rose signified the feminine element, purity, and intuition, while the red rose embodied masculine energy, passion, and action. Combining these two flowers or cultivating a mystical black rose was meant to signify reaching a state of perfection, finding the Philosopher's Stone, and solving the riddle of existence. This alchemical layer of meaning, full of secret signs and forbidden knowledge, immensely influenced later creators who sought symbols capable of expressing the complicated nature of the human soul.
Nineteenth-Century Aestheticism and the Cult of the Black Flower
In the nineteenth century, along with the development of the Gothic Revival, the Pre-Raphaelites, and Decadentism, the rose gained a completely new, unsettling face. Artists like Charles Baudelaire in his "Les Fleurs du mal" or Oscar Wilde began to celebrate beauty that is inextricably linked with decay, sin, and suffering. The rose became a symbol of fatal, destructive passion and a beauty that was artificial, refined to the absolute limit. It was then that the literary fascination with the black rose was born – a flower that does not exist in nature, making it a symbol of the perfect work of art, a triumph of human imagination over the laws of biology.
A black or deep burgundy rose in the fin de siècle aesthetic also signified mourning for lost ideals, melancholy, and a romantic death while alive. This flower also began to be commonly planted in cemeteries, becoming a symbol of eternal memory, a love that does not end with the cessation of a pulse, and the aestheticization of passing away. A rose thorn wounding a lover's finger became a universal metaphor for the pleasure derived from pain, which resonated perfectly with the dark sensitivity of that era and laid the direct foundations for the visual sphere of the future gothic subculture.

Laces, Velvets, and Floral Melancholy in Tailoring
Modern gothic style cannot exist without the rose motif. It is a symbol that introduces an element of sensuality, elegance, drama, and deep, romantic eroticism into this aesthetic. In premium clothing design, the rose rarely appears as a simple, flat print. Designers much more willingly reach for textural techniques that allow one to feel the structure of the flower beneath their fingers. gothic dresses very often utilize black, intricate laces where the pattern arranges itself into motifs of blooming roses and winding thorny stems. This technique creates an incredible effect on the skin – the transparent material reveals the body but simultaneously enwraps it in a floral barrier, combining gentleness with ferocity.
The rose is also a color revolution in a gothic wardrobe, which is otherwise dominated by black. The deep, bloody red, burgundy, or purple of rose petals introduces the necessary contrast and theatrical tension into styling. Three-dimensional applications of silk or velvet in the form of rosebuds attached at necklines, on cuffs, or as chokers around the neck are a direct reference to Victorian and Edwardian fashion. Meanwhile, gothic hoodies with rose motifs, often combined with barbed wire or elements of sacred geometry, are a proposition for people who want to break a sporty or street cut of clothes with an element of classic, dark elegance. The rose in gothic fashion reminds us that true beauty always carries the risk of being wounded, and the most beautiful things are born in the dark.
The Skull: The Eternal Mirror of Vanitas
From the Medieval Dance of Death to Baroque Memento Mori
The skull is the most uncompromising, raw, and powerful symbol in human history. It holds nothing understated – it is the naked truth about our biological existence, the essence of what awaits every human being, regardless of their wealth, power, or social status. Although today it is associated mainly with pop culture and rebellious subcultures, its golden age occurred during the Middle Ages and the Baroque period, when it stood at the center of European philosophical and religious reflection. In the Middle Ages, decimated by epidemics of the Black Death, the Danse Macabre – the Dance of Death – motif was born. On the walls of churches and in ossuaries, skeletons were painted leading kings, popes, craftsmen, and beggars in a dancing procession. The skull was then a symbol of the absolute democratization of death – a reminder that before eternity, we are all equal.
In the Baroque era, this motif evolved into a refined movement of art known as vanitas (vanity). Painters like Pieter Claesz or Dutch still-life masters created compositions where, next to ripe fruits, expensive vessels, books, and extinguishing candles, a human skull always rested. It was a classic memento mori – remember you must die. The skull in this perspective was not meant to scare in a cheap way; it was meant to prompt deep reflection on the fleeting nature of earthly pleasures, on the fragility of human plans and ambitions. It was a mirror in which Baroque humanity looked to gain humility before time, which relentlessly measured every second of life.
An Anatomy Lesson in Nineteenth-Century Cabinets of Curiosities
In the nineteenth century, the approach to the skull underwent a fascinating transformation under the influence of the development of science, medicine, and the birth of modern criminology and anthropology. The skull briefly left the purely religious sphere and moved into university laboratories and private cabinets of curiosities (Wunderkammer), which were incredibly popular among the intelligentsia and artists of the time. The fascination with anatomy mixed with a romantic thrill. Owning a human skull on a desk, next to a quill and an inkwell, became a symbol of intellectual pursuits, freethinking, and courage in exploring the mysteries of nature and the human psyche.
Lord Byron, one of the greatest poets of English romanticism, went even further – he found a medieval monk's skull at his estate, Newstead Abbey, had it cleaned and mounted in silver, creating a cup from which he and his friends drank wine during decadent feasts. This gesture became a symbol of romantic rebellion against bourgeois prudery and religious fear of death. The skull ceased to be merely a sign of damnation or decay and became a trophy, a symbol of transgressing a taboo, a triumph of art over a biological end, and proof that the memory of the dead can be celebrated in an extravagant and refined manner.
Anatomy and Rebellion on the Runways of Dark Fashion
When gothic fashion was born, the skull became its natural, most recognizable emblem. However, modern gothic style approached this motif with incredible refinement, cutting itself off from tacky, pirate-themed, or purely heavy-metal designs in favor of artistic anatomy and painterly drama. In the premium clothing segment, the skull is treated like a sculpture – its lines, shadows, and bone fractures are analyzed, giving graphics the character of museum engravings or mystical, geometric compositions.
Modern gothic hoodies with skull motifs are masterpieces of modern screen printing and computer embroidery. They often combine bone with elements of flora – skulls entwined with ivy vines, with bloody roses growing out of the eye sockets, which is a direct reference to the Baroque tradition of vanitas, showing the continuous cycle of life and death, where decay becomes the nourishment for new beauty. On the other hand, gothic dresses utilize the skull motif in an incredibly subtle way – as a tiny, repeating pattern on jacquard fabrics, which from a distance looks like a classic, elegant plant ornament and only reveals its darker face upon close inspection. Details such as buttons in the shape of miniature skulls, metal zippers, or belt buckles are small accents that build the coherence of the styling, making gothic clothing a complete, well-thought-out visual manifest. Wearing a skull is a declaration of full acceptance of the laws of nature, an affirmation of life in its ultimate, raw form, and a rejection of fear toward the inevitable.
The Anatomy of Fusion: How Ravens, Roses, and Skulls Cooperate in One Styling
Harmonizing Meanings and Avoiding Literalness
When we have such powerful and expressive motifs as the raven, the rose, and the skull at our disposal, the greatest challenge becomes the ability to harmoniously combine them within a single outfit. dark fashion can very easily fall victim to exaggeration, turning from a refined aesthetic manifest into a theatrical costume from a B-class horror movie. To avoid this, we must forget about mechanically adding elements and approach styling like composing a piece of music, where each instrument has its part, and moments of silence are just as important as loud chords.
The key to success is avoiding literalness and ensuring that symbols do not fight each other for the viewer's attention. If we decide on an item of clothing that carries a massive visual load – for example, gothic hoodies with a huge, detailed print of a skull entwined with roses on the back – the rest of the outfit must provide a toned-down, architectural background for that graphic. We cannot then add large raven pendants, skull rings on every finger, and a coffin-shaped handbag to the styling. Symbols work best when they result from one another, creating a logical story about passing and beauty, rather than a chaotic collage of subcultural clichés.
The Play of Textures and Proportions as a Sartorial Foundation
In modern alternative fashion, it is not color (which almost always remains black) but fabric texture and silhouette proportions that build the true depth of an outfit. By combining raven, rose, and skull motifs, we can assign them appropriate textiles, allowing for the creation of an incredibly rich sensory styling. The raven, with its glossy wings, is represented by smooth, shimmering, or feathery materials – satin, silk, faux leather, or patent vinyl. The rose is the domain of fabrics that are soft, deep, light-absorbing, and transparent – velvet, velour, jacquards, tulls, and laces. The skull, on the other hand, with its raw, matte bone structure, resonates perfectly with heavy, dense materials – thick cotton, wool, raw denim, and the matte metal of jewelry (oxidized silver, surgical steel).
Imagine a styling built on these contrasts: the base consists of gothic dresses made of matte black viscose, whose sleeves are made of transparent lace in a rose pattern. Over this, we throw a short, fitted biker jacket made of heavy, slightly shimmering leather, which references the wings of a raven. We fasten the whole thing with a wide belt featuring a matte metal buckle in the shape of an anatomical skull. In this approach, each symbol received its own unique material carrier. Light breaks on the outfit in different ways – the matte of the bone fights with the shine of the feathers, and the softness of the rose petals breaks the twardość of the leather. The silhouette gains an incredible three-dimensionality, becoming elegant, modern, and free from exaggeration.
Lookbook in the Shadow of Symbols: Four Tales of Sartorial Magic
Scene I: A Melancholic Afternoon in a Gothic Revival Library
High oak bookshelves bend under the weight of old, leather-bound volumes, and pale afternoon light falls through tall, pointed arch windows, with dust motes dancing in it. In this interior full of the scent of parchment and history, your styling becomes an extension of the architecture. The base of the outfit is a long, ankle-length skirt made of heavy black velvet, which rustles quietly with every step like the wings of a bird taking flight. The top is a fitted blouse with a high stand-up collar, made of delicate French lace whose pattern arranges itself into intricate, blooming roses. The thorns of these roses seem almost tangible against the pale skin of the shoulders.
Over your shoulders, you throw a long, woolen cardigan without a fastening, in a deep, peculiar shade of purple that breaks the monochromatic black of the outfit. The only, yet incredibly expressive, jewelry accent is a large, carefully carved pendant of oxidized silver depicting a raven skull, resting on your chest like a talisman protecting against oblivion. On your fingers, you have several simple silver bands. Your hair is pinned up loosely with an old wooden hair stick, and small black cubic zirconias shine from the eye sockets of a silver skull pinned to the cardigan's lapel. This is a styling full of literary silence, nineteenth-century elegance, ideal for immersing yourself in the reading of dark poetry.
Scene II: An Evening Stroll Through a Misty, Historic Cemetery
The mist rises lazily from the damp earth, wrapping stone angels and gothic revival tombs in a dense, gray shroud. The air smells of autumn, damp moss, and candles burning in the distance. You walk slowly down a cemetery alley, and your clothing is a perfect shield against the chill of the night and a manifestation of respect for the past. You are wearing gothic dresses of a midi length, made of dense, matte cotton, with an asymmetrical hem that moves in the wind like a shroud. Over the dress, you put on a heavy, tailored coat with wide lapels, the back of which is decorated with a monumental black embroidery depicting a raven perched on a human skull from which a single wild rose grows. The embroidery is made with threads of varying gloss, making the pattern seem to live a life of its own under the faint light of streetlamps.
Your legs are protected by thick, black tights with geometric patterns, and your feet rest in heavy, high combat boots with a thick tread that effortlessly handle the damp earth and fallen leaves. You wrap your neck in a wide, soft scarf made of black viscose, and pull leather fingerless gloves decorated with metal rivets onto your hands. Jewelry in this styling is raw – a massive signet ring with a memento mori motif on your index finger is the only metal accent. The entire silhouette is powerful, rooted in the earth, yet ethereal due to the surrounding mist. It is a pure tribute to the vanitas tradition in a modern, urban edition.
Scene III: An Industrial Rock Concert in a Post-Industrial Space
The interior of an old, abandoned factory pulses with heavy, mechanical bass, strobes cut the darkness like surgical scalpels, and the air is filled with the scent of heated electronics, stage smoke, and rebellion. In this thoroughly modern, raw space, your styling gains a fierce, post-apocalyptic face. You choose oversize gothic hoodies made of thick, washed cotton in a graphite black color, with a deep hood pulled low over your eyes. The front of the hoodie is decorated with a raw, anatomical print of a human ribcage and skull, executed in a technique that mimics brushstrokes in expressionist painting.
With this, you wear fitted faux-leather pants with numerous zippers and buckles that introduce an element of industrial rigor into the outfit. Around your waist, you have a powerful leather corset belt, from which long metal chains with thick links cascade down, rattling with every sharp movement to the rhythm of the music. A contrast to this metal aggression is found in the applications on the sleeves of the hoodie – sewn-on red, distressed roses made of frayed fabric, looking as if they were torn in a frantic dance. On your feet, you have massive platforms, and your makeup features heavy black lines around the eyes. It is a styling full of energy, uncompromising, combining classic gothic symbols with the rawness of cyberpunk and darkwear aesthetics.
Scene IV: An Alternative Art Exhibition Opening in a Modern Gallery
The white, sterile walls of the gallery, bright spotlighting, and minimalist sculptures create a space where every element of a guest's outfit becomes an object of artistic analysis. Your styling for tonight is a manifest of gothic minimalism from the high fashion segment, where the perfection of the cut and the subtlety of the sign matter most. You are wearing a suit with a modern, asymmetrical line – the blazer buttons deeply to the side, and wide trousers with a crease perfectly mask high-heeled shoes, elongating the silhouette to the absolute limit. The entire piece is made of matte, noble wool in a shade of absolute black.
Under the blazer, you wear no shirt – its neckline reveals only a delicate choker made of black gold, on which rests a miniature, anatomically perfect skull with rubies in place of eyes. This is the only point of color in the entire outfit, attracting glances like a magnet. In your hand, you hold a rigid clutch bag with a texture mimicking crow skin or raven feathers, and over your shoulders, you have a minimalist, short cape coat that gives your silhouette a geometric triangle form. On your fingers, simple geometric rings shine, devoid of any decorations. The styling is cold, intellectual, incredibly luxurious – it proves that dark fashion can find its place in the most prestigious salons of the contemporary art world without losing any of its mysterious magnetism.
A Guide to the Dark Wardrobe: Key Questions and Answers
Why is the black rose so popular in gothic fashion when it does not exist in nature?
The popularity of the black rose in the gothic subculture stems precisely from the fact of its non-existence in the natural world. This makes it an ultimate symbol – the embodiment of an absolute, an unachievable ideal of beauty, and the triumph of human imagination and art over the limitations of biology. In the nineteenth century, decadents and aesthetes treated the black rose as an icon of what was artificial, refined, and detached from the prose of life. In gothic culture, it also signifies a love that transcends the boundaries of death, pride in one's own difference, and a romantic melancholy – the awareness that the most beautiful things are those that are most elusive and condemned to eternal darkness.
Is wearing skull motifs not a profanation or a sign of disrespect?
In a gothic perspective, wearing skull motifs is the exact opposite of profanation – it is an expression of the deepest respect for the laws of nature, time, and human mortality. The gothic style does not treat the skull as a primitive scarecrow or a trophy. It is a direct continuation of the memento mori and vanitas traditions, which for centuries taught humanity humility and forced reflection on the value of every lived moment. The skull in gothic fashion is a mirror of truth, a symbol of the rejection of falsehood and superficial masks that modern consumer society forces upon us. It is a reminder that under the skin we are all the same and that death is a natural, beautiful part of the cycle of existence.
How should one care for clothes with delicate details like embroidered ravens or rose laces?
Premium gothic clothing with intricate details requires an incredibly delicate, almost sculptural care to preserve its deep black color and impeccable structure for long years. Clothes decorated with complicated computer embroideries (such as raven silhouettes on the backs of coats), sewn-on three-dimensional roses made of velvet, or delicate French laces should be washed exclusively by hand in cool water using very mild liquids designed for silk or wool. If you must use a washing machine, absolutely turn the garment inside out, place it in a special protective washing bag, and choose a program for delicate fabrics without spinning. Always dry your clothes flat, away from direct sources of heat and sunlight, which can irretrievably bleach black pigments from the fibers.
Where did the combination of a skull and a rose in a single graphic motif come from?
The combination of a skull and a rose is one of the oldest and most influential contrasts in European art history. It originates directly from the Baroque still lifes of the vanitas movement, where a blooming, fresh flower was placed next to a naked, dried bone. It is a universal metaphor for the continuous dance of life and death – a reminder that beauty and decay are interdependent. A rose growing out of the eye socket of a skull symbolizes the triumph of love and memory over physical departure, a rebirth that occurs on the ruins of the past, and the awareness that life gains its highest value and intensity precisely because it is finite and fragile.

An Eternal Heritage Hidden in Threads
gothic fashion proves that clothing can be something much more than just protection against the cold or a tool for building social status. It can be a living, deep cultural text where every seam, choice of fabric, and utilized graphic motif represents a conscious dialogue with the history of human sensitivity. The ravens, roses, and skulls that have so densely populated gothic hoodies, intricate gothic dresses, and countless accessories forming this extraordinary universe are not temporary prints invented by the marketing departments of large clothing corporations.
They are powerful, archetypal signs that have survived the test of centuries, wandering through pagan mythologies, medieval fear of pestilence, baroque humility before time, romantic literary rebellion, and the post-punk musical revolution. Modern gothic style has saved these symbols from oblivion and flattening, giving them a new, luxurious life on the streets of contemporary metropolises. By wearing gothic symbols, we do not disguise ourselves as someone else; quite the contrary – we strip away the masks of daily superficiality to manifest our independence, respect for transience, and love for a beauty that is not afraid to look deep into the shadow. It is this intellectual and emotional depth that ensures dark fashion remains one of the most fascinating, sovereign, and immortal spheres of modern sartorial culture.
0 comments